Transcript
Andrea Crisp 0:00
Relationships can be messy at the best of times, but especially if you're an entrepreneur or a small business owner. Today on the podcast, we're talking to couples therapist, Amber Dalsin, all about how to grow together as a couple, and how to choose the right partner for you, when you're an entrepreneur.
Amber Dalsin 0:20
And many couples, when they're talking about what they want, or where they're growing, they focus on how they're different. They focus on where they're not seeing eye to eye. And if you can flip that frame and say, where actually do we agree? Where actually do we have some shared goals and some shared dreams that helps lay out the path and the roadmap for how do you grow together, even when there's going to be places where you're not growing together.
Kate 0:45
You're listening to The Couragecast, a show to equip and empower women to live bravely. Each week, we'll share coaching conversations and stories of women who are willing to face their fear and pursue their purpose. Here's your host, life coach, author, and your secret weapon.
Andrea Crisp 0:59
Hello, friends. Welcome to the Couragecast. My name is Andrea Crisp, I am your host. And I am pretty excited to bring you this conversation today with Amber Dalsin, which is a very long time coming. Honestly, I think we recorded this episode back in the summer. And it was one of my very favorite recordings because Amber has such amazing knowledge about relationships, and especially when it comes to being an entrepreneur, because that can be really messy. And if you're not really choosing the right partner for you, or navigating your relationship with understanding your core values and what your needs are and how you need to be supported, then things might get a little bit out of hand. So I'm super excited for you to take a listen to this episode. It was originally aired on Instagram as part of their Courage Creator series. And today it's on the podcast and I'm thrilled to bring you Amber Dalsin.
Hey everyone, I'm back for another of our Courage Creator series today. I'm really excited because I've got an amazing guest to share with you today. Amber Dalsin, she is a psychotherapist and she's also a relationship expert. We're going to be talking all about what happens when you are struggling with having really hard conversations with your partner, significant other and how does that work when you're an entrepreneur and you're business owner, so we're gonna have a really great conversation. So she's gonna be here in just a second. Hey, Amber.
Amber Dalsin 2:50
Hi, how are you today?
Andrea Crisp 2:53
I'm good. I'm really excited to have you on I absolutely love this topic. And we're talking about the struggle that partners face when they are having these really tough conversations about their relationship, which I'm sure includes money in entrepreneurship and being business owners especially like after a pandemic, when things have so vastly shifted. I'm sure there's a lot of people who are in these positions where they are asking themselves these questions. But before we get into it, I'd love for you just to kind of tell people who you are and a little bit about who you serve.
Amber Dalsin 3:36
Yeah, absolutely. So as you said, I'm Amber Dawson. I'm a psychologist and couples therapist. And I'm the founder of ember relationships, psychology, where I love helping couples create connection and clear communication through simple framework so we can feel loved and heard. And part of why I do this is ultimately in my life. Being loved, the desire to be loved, and to fit into belong was something that I just didn't feel like I had, I grew up in a family system where my brother was a drug addict by the time he was 13 years old, and no fault of my parents, great parents. But as a result of that, I don't think any parent is ever equipped to handle a drug addict at 13. And I was just left alone, left to my own devices. And I didn't understand why I didn't get the love or attention or care that I wanted. And being 15 at the time myself, I thought well, I'll just get this through men. But it worked until it didn't work and I didn't know a lot about relationships. All I knew is that I deeply want it to be loved and I didn't have the tools to create that. And so now I have the tools now, I have a love beyond my wildest dreams I feel like I could write a fairy tale about and I want couples to also have the tools to build a love that they dream up because we are so wired for love. We are wired for connection and belonging but because we have fears or lack of skills or tools, so often we don't know how to get and keep that love that we dream of. So that's my goal is to help bring that to couples and make it a bit more accessible so that we can all have our little fairy tale whatever that looks like for us.
Andrea Crisp 5:02
We were talking just before we went live about, you know what that looks like when we're in a partnership with someone, and we're bringing in our own fears or insecurities and having those really tough conversations. I'd love to know, like, what, what are the big fears that you think, are holding people back, especially in entrepreneurship, you know, so maybe one person is an entrepreneur, and the other person is working their nine to five, and all of a sudden, you know, there's these questions around money, and how long are we going to be doing this? And what are some of the things that come up when you're talking to couples, or even people that are in that space?
Amber Dalsin 5:45
Are you asking from the perspective of the person who's starting their own business? Or from the perspective of the person who's not?
Andrea Crisp 5:50
Let's Let's go with the person who is starting their own business? Or is in the middle of that? Yeah.
Amber Dalsin 5:58
Gosh, I think there can be so many fears, right? I think starting out a new business. There's a ton of hurdles, I think most of us are already, you know, we can have that fear of like an imposter, can I really do this? Who do I think I am to be doing this? And so we already have our own vulnerabilities about who are we to be doing this? And are we going to make it? We can have fears and vulnerabilities around? Are we going to make the finances fears and vulnerabilities about being a failure? Or what will it mean, if we don't succeed, what will be left? Will our partner go? Will our partner be able to provide the emotional support we need through this? Will we be supported? Are they gonna be on our team? And I think there's so many different fears that you can have an interpreted, depends on your situation, your finances, your relationship, but I think a lot just around succeeding, getting the support that you need, and what's going to be the impact of whether or not you don't whether or not you succeed in the way that you want to. I think there certainly can come come up a number of fears, especially when we're diving into something where the future is uncertain and unknown. That is the perfect formula for all sorts of fears to emerge or arise.
Andrea Crisp 6:58
Yeah. And I mean, just as you're saying, you know, like, you're not only dealing with your own fear, but you of success, because I know like, if you're an entrepreneur, you're going through this these mindset shifts all the time about, you know, can I do this? Can I step into this space? What is it going to look like? Who do I have to be to be this person now? And then you're shifting, changing, and expanding? And maybe your partner is, you know, over here going, what is going on here? Like, do you see, you know, potentials where they they kind of start going apart? How do they, how would a couple, I guess, navigate staying together and keeping those values, or shared values when one person's really really growing in an area? And maybe the other person is staying in that space?
Amber Dalsin 7:51
Yeah, great question. I think this happens all the time, whether it's entrepreneurship or anything else, because throughout life, I mean, you're lucky if you and your partner go through something and you grow at the same rate, and at the same time, but that's usually not what happens. You know, we go through different life events, and they impact us in different ways. And we're catapulted into grow sometimes, and we don't want to be, and very often we don't go through growth at the same rate, or the same time that our partner does. And couples are always forced to be renegotiating every new gap, renavigating how do we grow through, go through growth and grow together, not apart. And there may be phases where you grow to part grow apart a bit, but then can you grow back together. So the best way that I think that we can do this is through conversations, and men and women as a sweeping over generalization here, but it's also supported in the in the research have different styles about how we communicate how often we want to communicate what we want to communicate about. So just remember that how you communicate in your relationship is going to be different for every relationship.
There are some females who don't love to talk and share and be vulnerable. And there are many females who love to talk and share and be vulnerable. There are some males who don't want to talk about anything, they only want talk about sports and politics and that's it. There are other males who are very open to talking about the relationships. But as a sweeping overgeneralization, females usually are the ones who want to talk about the relationship, they're usually the ones who are managed the emotional labor in the relationship. And so more often than not, the woman will be responsible for typically bringing those things up and having them be worked on. Sure there are men who do that. And we don't want to say men don't need to be part of that equation. They shouldn't be just recognizing also that there's differences for whatever reason, maybe it's biological, maybe it's socialization, but we've got some differences there.
But the thing that couples need to be open to is having conversations about how one person's dream impacts them both and there's a few mistakes that people make sometimes when they're going to have conversations. Some of these mistakes include like steamrolling your partner and just you sharing the way you think it should be and assuming for agreement or assuming that they're going to get on board where, you know, maybe they have to digest maybe they thought all along that you too would both be having a nine to five and they're shocked to hear that you want leave your nine to five. And they need some time to get their mind onboard with that. So just because you brought up an idea, you understand the idea, you have thought through the idea, give your partner some time to adjust and adapt, because it might not be that they don't support you, it might just be a radically different vision than they have in their mind's eye. Because whether or not we realize that sometimes, we all have dreams and beliefs and goals about what our future is going to look like.
And if you've been in a long term relationship, you can't help but create goals and dreams based on your partner as well. And so when we're going into this, it's really important to share our side, but also ask about our partner's side, their point of view, without judgment, without criticism without blame without, you know, accusing them that they're not supporting, but giving them the time and space to voice their concerns, their opinions, even if you radically disagree, because one of the things that would influence that it's kind of irritating is we actually have more influence with people, when we get them to feel seen, heard, understood, we validate their position, before we get that agreement in ours. And most of us when we're feeling like super gung ho, and supercharged on the vision on the path that we see, it can be incredibly frustrating when our partners aren't there with us, we want the support, and we want it now. And when they, you know, offer resistance or reluctance or fears or feel unsupportive, or have criticisms, we're like, how dare you. And the last thing we want to do is hear them.
But what most couples if you work hard to hear each other, even if they're very differing views. So I always like to say, the measure of success isn't if you start out in different books, you're not gonna be on the same page, it's great if you and your partner talk and you're on the same page and the same book, you get two thumbs up. But most people, if you're going through a radical change, or you're growing in different directions, you might start out in different pages of the books, I mean, different books, different pages of the books, and I think the measure of success isn't where you start. It's where you finish. So if you're bringing these things up, and you're talking about it, and you want to grow together, I think it's really important for both people get the opportunity to share their beliefs, values, goals, dreams, fears, even if these things are founded in logic and reality or not. Yeah, and then figure out what are your shared goals or dreams? What do you have in common, and work to get at least in the same book, if not the same chapter if not the same page. And many couples, when they're talking about what they want, or where they're growing, they focus on how they're different, they focus on where they're not seeing eye to eye? And if you can flip that frame and say, where actually, do we agree? We're actually do we have some shared goals and some shared dreams, that helps lay out the path and the roadmap for how do you grow together, even when there's going to be places where you're not growing together?
Andrea Crisp 12:51
Yeah. Now, you know, when a couple stays together, or one of them is having tremendous success, because I've seen both. So I want to address both sides, where an entrepreneur all of a sudden has this like accelerated success and is making a ton of more money, maybe then the partner, or the the partner is in a business, and they are having a hard time. And the partner now is like, "Okay, well, I need you to get a job." So like, those are two different sides of the coin. But could you address both of those, because I feel like, there will be people who find themselves like all of a sudden, they feel like my partner really, really wants me to get a job, and I am having resistance to like going back to a nine to five. And then on the other side, they're making a ton of money. Yeah, and now they're like having to explain like to their partner who maybe is making less now. So what do you say to that?
Amber Dalsin 13:51
Well, I think anytime we make a change in our relationship, we're always going to have to be adjusting and re navigating the roles that we're in and the experiences we're having. So I think I guess I'll start with if you're making less money, and you feel the pressure by your partner to get a job. I think this is going to look different for every single relationship. And remember, no one is in your relationship. But you and I think this again, comes back to some really difficult conversations that might not always be the most pleasant to have. But instead of thinking, "Okay, they want me to get a job," I think it's important to sit down and to talk about what are the core needs here. So is the core need to be financially secure, to pay your bills, tend to know that we're headed toward a shared vision, to save for retirement. And then once you understand the core goals you both have, there can be more flexible ways that you think about meeting those needs. So maybe your partner can say look, I can financially be in this position with you where you're not bringing in money, I can handle that for three months, or I can handle that for six months. I can handle that for one year. So you can talk about timelines or time durations of not getting a job. You can talk about, you know, minimum amounts of cash flow to be bringing in so you don't have that pressure. You could be talking about is there a part time job where you could do half and half or another thing that you could wants to have some money coming in.
So I think it's not always a conversation that is so cut and dry like you need to get a job or you don't need to get a job, although your partner might say that, figure out what the core need is, is the core need security? Is the core need contribution? Is the core need saving for retirement is their core need? Is it the lasting financial legacy? Once you figure out that core need is for you both, you can compromise on how is that done? Certainly doesn't mean you're going to just always have these free flowing easy conversations or compromises smooth. Probably not because you're probably both going to be triggered. But you might need to keep coming back to what temporary compromises are, what things can you agree on for now, and maybe follow up and revisit in a week or a month or in six months, so that you keep working towards what you need. And your partner, here's the thing, your partner might want you to get another job, that might be their preference.
Andrea Crisp 15:52
Yeah.
Amber Dalsin 15:53
But if they're willing to tolerate the distress of perhaps that entrepreneur not making the income, and their preference would be to get you to get a job, but maybe you just, the person who is the entrepreneur, would just need to tolerate the distress of their partner not liking where they're at. And together, your joint agreement can also be we agree to not like it, or move forward until it feels better and revisit that in a number of months. So sometimes agreement and solutions doesn't mean liking. Sometimes it means accepting the problems and the pressures that you have, which isn't always the most desirable outcome. But John Gottman, and their research are the Gottmans and the Gottmans is doing their research have found that 69% of relationship problems aren't solvable, that means that only 31% of relationship problems can be solved. And so sometimes the antidote is accepting that your partner doesn't like where you're at, and you don't like where they're at. And you move forward. Anyway.
Andrea Crisp 16:49
Wow, I didn't realize that. That's that is, okay. Now, okay, so for the person, we've been talking a lot about people who are in partnerships and relationships, but for the people who are maybe not, I would love for your thoughts, because they're going to set themselves up, in a way, in a relationship where they have a clean slate, how can they set themselves up for success? By really communicating well, with a new partnership? And how, how do they actually, like I mean, I, you know, this is purely selfish on my part, I'm single. So tell me what I'm going to need to do to set myself up for success in my next relationship.
Amber Dalsin 17:33
Great, great thoughts. So I think one of the first things you need to be considering when we're dating is choosing a partner that matches the emotional availability that you need. So right from the outset, we're getting clues from certain people, if they're willing to talk to you, if they're willing to have some difficult conversations or not, or if they're throwing up flags that they don't want to talk, I think right away, because in early relationship, we are swept away with dopamine, serotonin, oxytocin, pheromones, and we can fall hard and fast for no good reason other than, like our biology said so, our biology is incredibly powerful. And the initial stage of falling for someone, it can be like red flag, red flag, flashing red flag in your nervous system is like, what red flag, I don't see it. Just kidding. Like, I will flood you with more pheromones, you don't see any red flags.
So I think the first thing to be aware of is just how powerful our biology is. And recognizing that that is gonna, if you meet that person, and we've had this experience, you meet someone, and your biology just loves them, they might not be that great in any other way, but your biology is like lit right up. You're literally going out for like a Christmas tree and you can't calm that down. You can't unplug it, no matter what you try to do. So it's just to recognize that that is a biological thing. And it does not always mean that partner is great for you. In some cases, we lean up even more to the people that aren't great matches for us because it actually sparked some anxiety in us. And then when they show up in the way that we want intermittently, then we get reward and we get relief. And so we get even more sparks sometimes for people that are poor matches for us. That being said, we can also get sparks. Yeah, so we get sparks for people that are great matches, and we can get sparks and sometimes way more sparks from people that are awful matches for us. So we don't want to just buy into it feels good, therefore, it's right. We need to have the hat of like, of course, we want it to feel good. We want it to be a little bit of magic. That's part of the fun of dating and falling for someone. But we also have to balance that with a bit of the logical hat or the hat that is maybe you know, the check marks of what we want. Now it's not all checkmarks because when you find that right person for you, they're going to check boxes you never even knew you had and they're not going to check boxes that you thought were important to you and you're going to choose that person or not.
But you want to get really clear on what are the values what are the goals that are absolute deal breakers for you. So for me in my personal life, I know that I'm I mean, I talk for a living, I know that I need someone that can have an emotional conversation with me, at least sometimes. Now, my partner, we're not having emotional conversations every day, not even every week. But when I need to keep tanned, we have incredibly different preferences for how deep or emotional conversations about relationships we want to have. But he'll have an incredibly deep conversation with you about sports or politics. Now, I think there's a lot of people in this world that wouldn't say those are deep conversations or superficial, but for him, they're incredibly deep and meaningful. So we have to make sure we're aware of what our expectations are. So we need to know our expectations about emotional availability, first and foremost, because you cannot make someone love you, or care for you, or give you Words of kindness or touch that isn't prepared to do so. If they're not going to do it, they are not going to do it. And like, Yeah, sometimes it can be learned, or sometimes they will change. But more often than not, if someone has a pattern of behavior over time that says they are not available, probably not going to be.
So the first thing is that be aware of what you need in terms of emotional availability. Then you want to consider how do they speak to you ultimately, because the some of the biggest predictors of relationship breakdown aren't the problems you actually have. They are how you talk about the problems that you have. So some predictors of relationship breakdown or what you call harsh startup. So that's what it sounds like. It's starting a conversation with harsh words, clipped marks, criticism, or contempt.
Andrea Crisp 21:32
Yeah,
Amber Dalsin 21:33
The Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. So the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse are so bad for relationships, the goblins have turned them the Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse. So these are overlapping categories. So like I already said, harsh startup has criticism and contempt. Those are two of your four horsemen. Another one is defensiveness, or stonewalling. And let's be clear, even the best relationships do those sometimes. So if someone does those, sometimes, it's not like, Whoa, red flag!
Andrea Crisp 21:57
Right? That not run for the hills? But?
Amber Dalsin 22:00
Yeah, but if that's a dominant pattern of behavior over time, probably not great. So those are the top two predictors of divorce, harsh startup and the four horsemen and I could go on and on and on with those. So you just want to be aware of "Are these the dominant patterns?" Because if they are, that's probably not great. And then just recognizing every partner comes with a set of problems. Everyone does. Yeah, and choosing a partner is choosing the problem that you want, and choosing the qualities that you want. So I think it's really important to be discerning when you go in like, okay, yes, that's a flag. Is that a flag I can handle? Or is that a flag that's going to be an incredible deal breaker? So I'd be going in with a bit of like, what do I really want what's really important? Knowing what I'm flexible with knowing like, there's absolutely no way I'm going to tolerate that, and then kind of going along with it. And I think when it comes to the long term, like is this person a great long term mate.
So give yourself a little time if you're noticing those love hormones beginning to fade, as they eventually do. Is the relationship still filled up with good positive feelings, even when kind of all those chemical signals in your body were off? Because what we know in the relationship research is in day to day interactions, you need a ratio of 20 positive things for every one negative thing to have a neutral balance. And in conflict conversations, you need five positives for everyone negative to have the complex conversation generally steer in a positive way. So as those love drugs fade out of our nervous systems, is there still positive things happening in relationship? As you know, there's still phases across the room? Are they still using nurturing touch? Do they still call? Do you still have conversations? Are they still emotionally available in some ways? Are they still doing these things that fosters the loving feelings? Or are they the kind of person that when the love drums go away, they're like, no, they have the mentality that love should be easy, or it should always feel genuine, like love could be easy, and it could be genuine, if you're creating the rituals and the habits, that puts those things in place are they're second nature.
So those are some of the things I really look at, does the good feelings persist? After you know our our neurobiology is in firing as strongly, so those are some of my initial thoughts when you're headed into a relationship when you're dating and you're thinking okay, is this person a great match for me, and I think, yeah, just early on, pay attention to the flags if you can, and it doesn't mean you have to end a relationship then in there. But if your friends are bringing things up, if they're like, Oh, you know, I noticed your partner like drinks the lot like more, be careful that you're not like, "Oh, yeah, I only drink a lot but it like makes them really fun and like they're they're just really great with their friends," and like notice what your friends are saying. Because sometimes when we're filled up with the love drugs at the beginning of relationship, anything, any concerns anyone brings up we can have a rationalization or an excuse for because, like we're lit up like a Christmas tree inside. So just noticing what people say. Analyzing it also recognizing in the early stage of relationship, like we're not the greatest Judge of things because we're so flooded with our own pleasure hormone. So it's just an ongoing evaluation.
Andrea Crisp 25:25
This is like been like, gold. Really, I mean, we've covered pretty much everything we can cover, as far as like in relationship or when we want to be in start being in a relationship and kind of how to navigate those conversations. Where can people find you if they want to connect with you? And maybe even there have questions that they have specifically related to some of these things?
Amber Dalsin 25:51
Yeah, absolutely. So two places to find me if they're listening to this on the podcast, you can head over to my podcast, which is Relationships Psych the podcast. Alternatively, you can find me on Instagram, I spent a lot of time there, which is @emberrelationshippsychology, EMB, E, R, relationship psychology, so you can find me there. And if you're in the province of Ontario, and you want therapy, you can go www.emberrelationshippsychology.com, and figure out how you can book yourself in for a session. So that's how you can find me, and I love seeing people on Instagram. That's the best place if you have a question. It's a comment or you can put it in the comments or send me a DM I can't give direct advice on there. But you'll see it show up in different ways, or I can answer your question vaguely. So, you know, that's the best way to find me if you have some more questions.
Andrea Crisp 26:35
That's amazing. Thank you so much for hanging out with me on Instagram, and also on the Couragecast. And I can't wait for this to go live elsewhere, as well. But for those of you who joined in today, or watching the replay, thanks for tuning in, make sure you connect with Amber as well here on Instagram and have a great weekend.
Amber Dalsin 26:57
Yeah, you too. Thank you so much for having me on. It was an absolutely delight to speak with you this Friday.
Andrea Crisp 27:03
Wow, wow, wow. Honestly, I love that conversation. You know, I am a single woman, talk about this all the time. And, you know, when I think about being in a relationship, there have been a lot of barriers and obstacles that I've personally had to really think about in my own life, that have perhaps kept me from really getting into a relationship. And talking to Amber was really eye opening for me, because it made me realize what it is that I truly do desire in a relationship. And maybe you're in that place in your own life. And you can be navigating this single, as a couple, you know, or even struggling to figure this out. Maybe you're in a long term relationship, that you've recently become an entrepreneur, and trying to figure out how does this work. And the one big takeaway that I really, really I'm coming away with is really, that it's all about communication. And it's all about being honest about where you're at, what you need, and how you can be supported or feel supported by your partner, when it comes to choosing a partner, when it comes to being with your current partner, or even really explaining to someone you really love about what you need moving forward so that you can truly follow your dreams. And that's what it's all about, right? I think we can have it all. I do really believe that, I do believe that it is possible for us to have amazing partnerships, and amazing businesses all at the same time. So I want to say thank you to Amber, for coming on. She's a wealth of knowledge. Make sure you do follow her over on Instagram, she's got amazing reels, tons of content that she pushes out every single week. And if you're in Ontario, and you're looking for a couples therapist, she's your girl. So thanks, Amber for being on the show. And I'm so glad that we got to spend this time together friends. Also make sure to connect with me, over on Instagram. You can find the podcast at @the.couragecast. And you can find my coaching account at @andreacrispcoach. Until next time, remember, you have everything you need to live bravely.
Kate 29:35
If you like this episode of The Couragecast, we'd love to hear from you. Leave us a rating and review and while you're there, hit subscribe so you never miss an episode. Original music and production by Stephen Crilly.
